Eskyo....Go and play 17's mate at 11.40 am...All the refs are on their way to play....Its not just about all age...everyone can have a Friday night or 2. Plenty of parents will go for a Friday night to have the weekend free occasionally.
esky i play friday night and for my old bone it was better,like i said yes you will lose some but then again i bet you will gain some aswell. and if your got 45s playing all age then who cares,i bet no one at kellyville would go from 45s to AA
and esky so im guessing you turn up the heaters on training nights so its not so cold for you or do you train at midday on wednesday for lunch .
This is my opinion and i don't give a toss what you think
Is the idea of playing night games for 35's and 45's a friday night only idea? or is the thinking along the lines of during the season some of the games will be played Friday night while others are played Saturday or even Sunday, therefore spreading the game days/nights over the weekend over the whole 18 rounds. Like NRL
merv, Spreading the game is a much better idea i think. And as shagger suggested it shouldn't just be limited to 35s and 45s. We have a number of suitable grounds in the assn that we can play night games on and i think all of them should be used every Friday night.
Post by fourfourtwo on Aug 31, 2012 19:39:13 GMT 10
Refsdad, You sort of answered the question of pay structure (set by FNSW) but dodged the other part about referee retention / recruitment.? Management team, appointments and personalities within your organisation.
Like all Ref Associations, you know at the commencement of every season how may games need to be covered so, surely if your in the business of referee's you have some responsibility to the FA and clubs to retain and recruit to accommodate accordingly. Can this be outsourced across other districts?
This GDSFA's competition structure has operated in it's current format for years. Boys / men on Saturday and girls / ladies on a Sunday. Maybe if the management, appointments and personalities actually sit down with the FA and workshop the ongoing problem/s then, the clubs in the district may see some improvements.
The foul and abusive issue is not new but the massive inconsistencies across the districts, State Youth League and Senior competitions are amazing. The referee has control of the game so he/she should act within the rules of the game but sadly it does not always happen. What are the foul & abusive figures this season compared to 2011?
every year the MC look and try and work out why people come and go, there are many reasons.
Work and study are two of the biggest ones. Not much we can do there. We have several young very good referees about to sit their HSC, where they end up at uni will have a bearing on whether they stay with us, we also have several who will be starting year 12 in term 4, again there may be an impact there as well. several from both these groups have taken part in the TAP group and therefore been doing YL games this year, but they also do Granville games as well
Another factor is that a lot of referees still play as well. This restricts the time slot's available, and in many cases they are dependent on parent's transporting them so they are also restricted to where or when they can ref.
We will never have enough referees to cover all games, and as I have mentioned elsewhere, I for 1 would like to see the clubs give up their preferences they give to GDSFA each year and use a bit of common sense in moving games so more games can get covered
I'm sort of for the idea, get the draw out really early so players can organise their life, i.e. games clashing with either the child's game or if coaching, their teams game. One problem I see is the home and away structure. Sure Girls are not really a problem because they don't really play a home and away set up, but men do, and some fields don't have appropriate lighting. This might not be a real big issue, just needs a bit of planning. I think if this was to be a real possibility the concept needs to be put to those affected NOW (Clubs/Players/Refs) so it can be in place for next year.
Post by fourfourtwo on Sept 3, 2012 18:03:16 GMT 10
Refsdad, But what are the real reasons? I mentioned about the management of your organisation, the personalities but you've not spoken a word about that? What strategy has the organisation have in place for recruitment and retention? What are the foul & abusive figures in the past 2 seasons? What are your active referee numbers this season compared to the last?
Young and progressive referees are absolutely fantastic (and some are even on the National Youth League A-League panel) but the problem is primarily district mens games after lunch on a Saturday.
Saying you will never have enough referees is not what any FA and club want to hear.
At Coleman we have 3 fields with the required 100 lux lighting, I think Webbs have 2, progress 2 and Princes 1
442, interested to know what your slant is re management/personalities, like any club or even the GDSFA we are reliant upon a small core of volunteers, and unlike the assn we don't have full time and pastime employees so I guess we are time poor.
As I have said elsewhere perhaps the GDSFA and clubs need to look at being more flexible about the timing and placement of games to give a better chance of getting more games covered. Clubs and teams, particularly seniors, may need to also look at themselves to see what they can do to lessen the losses from their niggardly whining attitude towards the referees, perhaps it should be mandatory for each team to actually learn the LotG rather than their misguided interpretations of how they think the rules should only apply to their opposition rather than themselves :-)
Post by fourfourtwo on Sept 3, 2012 21:05:48 GMT 10
Refsdad, Absolutely no slant, just interested to know why the Ref Ass cannot accommodate for the needs of the FA and clubs. Surely there is a responsibility there to try. So your not prepared to answers the questions then. Just, "we will never have enough referee's".
Yes, understand and appreciate that other FA's play their mens on Sat/Sun at all time and get almost 100% coverage from their Ref Ass but as I said previously, the composition of the GDSFA competition has not changed?
Why should the refs bend over backwards when some clubs won't come to the party. During the course of the season the Appointments officer approached many clubs to try and rejig things, some saw the sense and ended up with games covered, others said no for whatever reason, some I'm sure so that then they could provide a referee that might be a bit more favourable to their own teams.
There are a few reasons why, some I mentioned earlier, people work on Saturday, people still play or coach teams, others because their parents won't drive them around. If you have any constructive ideas feel free to pm them to me and I can assure you I will table them for consideration. But no we cannot cover all games, and as I have said on other occasions surely it makes sense to ensure that the referee covering the game is qualified to do the game.
Again what we need is for the clubs and both associations to sit down and work it out, I understand we have a responsibility to try but it is hard if not everyone is on the same page.
You do seem to have a slant, you keep on about personalities, it works both ways, there needs to be a commitment from the clubs and FA to work at ensuring that they have the right people both at club and assn level to ensure the working relationship goes both ways.
Anyway these are things that we will look at in the off season and try to work out ways of better retention, but I know some have study and work commitments, I hope you are not suggesting that refereeing a pack of whining prima donnas should come before someone's work or study
Last Edit: Sept 3, 2012 22:02:15 GMT 10 by refsdad
442, I am starting to get a familiar feeling about your attitude. It reminds me of someone.
Referees are recruited from the FFA permissible age of 13, 14 to take charge of a game. At 14, the amount paid for games is way in excess of what fast food joints or chains stores pay kids. We lose more than half of new candidates within 5 years of their joining. This rate is in line with other codes. As they get older, some focus more on school, some on playing, some move away, some to work commitments, some decide it isn’t for them, some get abused. Whatever the individual’s reason, they give up the whistle. Pay, so important at 14, is much less so at 18. Then factor in those that get too old, medically unable, family and or work commitments, and many other varied reasons for the mature referee, and numbers become a problem. In an effort to maintain an acceptable number, we recruit, with the focus on older members. Sadly, most years the number of older candidates is vastly overwhelmed by younger people. Rinse and repeat. There is a shortage of Referees in our sport as well as in RL, RU and cricket. Every single sport has the retention problem. No one has a recruitment problem.
We can not force people to join. We can’t force people to stay.
Taking pot shots at people like refsdad who are doing their best with an apparently insolvable problem that plagues all sports is just stupid. Especially whan you hide behind a stupid hotmail address.
You, of course, could pitch in and help. However, I am sure you’re busy with your kids, team, club or council.
/cue the idiots who complain about people saying if you’re not prepared to help you can’t comment.
yes the constant harping about personalities sort of raised a wrning sign, but I firmly believe that if the clubs, assn and refs can work together we should be able to get better coverage with what we have, but we need to break the existing culture and not be so tied to certain time slots for certain age groups.
Also if games are spread across both days for both comps ladies teams might get the chance to get more home games at home
Fingers crossed that the Association will hold a strategic forum this year, and will do so every year.
We intend to raise this issue there, not as a finger pointing exercise, but looking for real solutions.
Despite that, would the refs association be prepared to convene something similar with the clubs? Maybe not all clubs will be invited or accept, just for organisational purposes, but at least get us all talking and working together to get solutions.
I am sure the Referees would be open to such an approach.
Sadly, every season we have offered LOTG updates and explanations, attempt to run courses at Clubs, every just simple basic Laws for the coaches, very few clubs take this opportunity.
Whatever is decided needs to happen sooner rather than later, as clubs may require time to get up to speed. By this I mean there is no point in announcing that certain games/ages will be played on Sundays, AFTER the rego process has taken place.
Any opinions expressed here are mine alone and not necessarily indicative of any formal Referee's body unless otherwise stated.