Leeds - I tend to disagree with you about the Champions League as I see this competition being better for having a couple of teams from each league... Wouldn't be too much fun each year if you have the best teams in Italy, Spain and England up against the best in Iceland, San Marino or Lichtenstein...???It had to go that way (similar to State Cup) in that the best 2 teams may come from the same league...
I think you will find that the way it works is dependent on how a particular nation's club teams go the year before in European tournaments. The better you go the more spots are available in the different competitions. If your teams perform poorly, then you may lose spots. I think that on occassions the fourth placed side has been allowed to try to qualify for the Champions League. To me, just not the same.
That is what the UEFA Cup was for. The best of the rest.
You say that it would not be too much fun just to have a few nations club teams play v each other each year. Well, all European nations entered teams in the European Cup and that is why it became such a prestigious tournament to qualify for & win.
Leeds, I'm pretty sure you are right about the selection. Although the name suggests a league for all champions (from all euro nations) (although it is not realy a league format) i would much rather see games between the best teams in Europe no matter which country they are from. 3 out of the 4 semi finalist last yer were from EPL and me thinks they all deserved their spot, had only one team from every country been allowed, the standard of Champions League would have dropped significantly.
Winsto won the GF in U/9's, coming from 3rd spot. That was a great DAY.
CH finished the MP maybe 8 points in front of us that season & lost just one match all season, the GF. We went through the whole season undefeated but in total including semis & GF won 7 matches, one of them by a penalty shootout (sudden death). We scored the winning goal with maybe 4 minutes left in normal time. I would have thought that CH would have won 8 matches that season plus the match to get into the GF but fell short in the GF. And they would have played one match less than us too.
Were Winsto the best team that year, not a chance. We just got lucky on the day.
GF's are good but I'll take the MP any day to get into the CoC's.
I think it is a little different in the lower divisions but, I would prefer to be promoted by winning the MP one year & have the chance to play at a higher level the following year, than come 4th, win the GF but still stay in the same Div the following year. Can't believe I am going to say this but, as Stan says, don't get me wrong winning a GF is great, I would just prefer the other.
And in regard to our GF win, I think that it was a very even match with both teams having chances to score but it is a bit of a stretch to say we were definitely the better team. It was the sort of match that both teams could argue the point. But, yeah, of course we were the better team, WE WON !!
Post by afishinmission on Sept 1, 2009 18:32:12 GMT 10
I would have loved to see the posts from stan and fishin if fishin had won the MP this season but not the GF and stan had won the GF but not the MP.
LOL !!!! then, obviously . . .the Minor Premiership would rule !!!!!
Kidding. I have spoken to a lot of people in the last few weeks, and everyone says that the GF is the one that counts. The majority opinion seems to be: the only honour in winning MP is in 1st div, because of C of C. How does this sound, Stan ? . . your premmies team loses the GF. They are gutted at losing. But still have C of C to look forward to, yeah ? They go to Griffith and get knocked out first game. Again, gutted. So much for a longer season ! Their last 2 games( both against decent opposition ) of the season are loss/loss. Their spirit goes from positive and excited after being crowned "champions", to disappointment after each loss. You call them "the best team over the whole season" . . yeah, the whole of the season except the 4 games that count ;D ;D ESPECIALLY the last 2.
They then come back to Sydney and eventually work out that if they were the best, they would have kept on winning . . . .
But you may be right. Maybe we do need to be MP in D1 to appreciate the value of the MP. Because using the example of your team above, I sure as hell don't see how you deem yourself to be the champs when you get beat when it counts.
As I have stated earlier, winning the GF a couple of years ago was a big thrill for the boys & as a part of the coaching staff, for me as well. But to be able to say that you have been the best team after all teams have played each other an equal amount of times, which this year happened in this age, is what it is all about. Maybe, maybe it would be different if there was no CoC's but there is so, it is hard to really think otherwise. Many of you may come back & say that this is not England, yeah, yeah, I know. But ask any footballer playing in the EPL if they would rather win the Premier League or the FA Cup & I'll guarentee that a large majority will say the P League title. As that means they are the best. Simple !!
Many years ago Gladesville Hornsby were short of players for their U16 Inter District team. They asked the U15 M Premiers & GF winners from the previous season if they would like to come over as a team to play Inter District. As a lure they guarenteed this team a one off play off match with the U16 MP's of that year for the right to play in the CoC's. They also threatened that if they did not accept then there would be no CoC's team invited that year. This team accepted & all our team was interested in was becoming MP's so we could play in that match. We won the MP & the GF that year as was expected but the fact we lost that play off match & did not get our chance in the CoC's still bug me today. Give me the MP & CoC's any day.
Post by afishinmission on Sept 2, 2009 9:48:29 GMT 10
Stan, So here we were, having a good discussion on the merits of GF vs MP . . then you start going silly.
I would hope that your boys would not be gutted if they lost. As grown men, you would hope that they have got their crap together by now. My bad call. I'm used to dealing with 12 year olds. ;D
LW have been in 1st div for 2 seasons now. And so far, we have not won a MP. We have finished ( at the actual end of the whole season 3rd and 1st) So I don't know what it is like to win a D1 MP. We have won lower div MP, but C of C wasn't a factor there.
I would be real interested if we could totally avoid the adults input, and only hear the kids voices on this debate. . . . Let's invent a fictional u/12 team and call them ABC. Remember, we are only looking at this from the kids eyes, not yours or mine. Which might count you out already, Stan . . . coz your used to dealing with the big kids !. Anyway . . . The ABC boys are told they have "won" the MP. Their parents are so excited, because they will go on to play the best of the best. The kids don't see the point in getting excited, because mum won't let them spray the team colours in their hair. That only happens on GF day ! They go in to the GF game, believing they are the best, because they won the MP. They get beat in the GF game, and are shattered. Some even cry.( That's how it happens in 12's, Stan). They see the "second place" team jumping about, screaming and cheering because they won the GF. The supporters of the poor "second place" team are also delirious with joy for their kids.
The defining moment of winning anything in sport, is holding aloft the trophy. . . .except when you "win" the minor premiership. . .coz there is NO defining moment . .
As the captain of the "second place" team holds up his team's GF trophy, the place goes wild. The "premiers" are slumped on the ground, devastated.
But in the car ride home, mummy and daddy remind lil Johnny that his team are the champions. Johnny don't quite believe them right now . After a few days, he lifts his spirits and looks forward to the "real" championship games, as mummy calls them.
His team plays poorly and is knocked out 0-2 in the very first game.
Now, you go ask Johnny what HE would have preferred. . . Holding up the winners trophy, or losing the last 2 games.
I think the kids would always go for the GF win. As they get older, they might opt for the C of C.
That's my opinion.
It's not about LW vs CH. If you call them the best team, then . .err . . LW is at least as good as them. Last year, the stats of the games between us was used as the yardstick by Christopher Skase ( ONA). Of course, those stats won't count now, as CH would come off second best.
Again, Stan . .my opinion only, looking at it from a 12 yr old player's perspective. Not an adults one. And isn't it all about the kids ? . . . or do you want to shove YOUR opinions down the kids throats ? oops, did I say that ?
Finally, I got some photo proofs from the GF emailed to me last night. Gee, the "second place" team looks much, much happier than the minor premiers ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Post by afishinmission on Sept 2, 2009 12:59:36 GMT 10
Boys dont give a toss about minor premiers when they see the others hold up the trophy at the end of the game.
Stan, let's agree to disagree. You see the MP as the real champs.
I see MP as the first qualifier for the semi's, who are yet to prove themselves in the pressure of finals football. You call MP's the best all season. So you don't count the semi finals ?. So why are you so against the round robin series and want to bring back the semi's format ?
Or is it because your team couldn't handle the heat when it counted ? Hit a wall, did we ? . . 3 games in a row against the top sides a bit too much for the boys, Hmmm ?