Stan i was reffing for FNSW last year and it was about 2 years ago that they told us to crack down on it. If it was AUDIBLE to you and or spectators the player must walk. I admitedly felt this was harsh and we were drilled at first if we did not enforce it. However time went on and slowly it got less strict but as soon as it was at another player or myself then they would walk. Off field i swear all the time on field i manage not to. Similar to when you first start swearing as a teenager and you managed to change your language so it was as clean as a whistle when you were around your parents. It is all a mindset and i know that for the older players it can be quite hard to change. One trick i found as a referee was to pretend i couldnt see which player swore so when i was asked why i didnt card the player i would say i heard the comment but didnt see who yelled out the words so i cant point a gun and say you swore. It is a touchy subject and a referee once upon a time claimed he didnt find the word "f*ck" offensive. Mind you i dont either but the outrage that followed his statement was amazing. I believe there should be some leniency (getting hit in the balls that is if you are in any state to utter a word, or if it is in frustration at yourself.) those are my thoughts/experiences i think players can learn but bad habits are hard to break after years and years.
The referess association make the offer every year to come and talk to players about the LOTG, law changes, interpretations, just about anything a club or team wants to talk about in terms of 'running' the game.
In the 10+ years I was on the referees education committee, I doubt we were asked to come to clubs and do a talk or presentation more than 12-15 times.
These offers are made via delegates at a Granville GM, so I can only guess the delegates are not passing on the offer to clubs, or the club MC doesn't think it it necessary.
I can assure you referees are keen to get out and talk to clubs and build better relationships and understanding between both parties.
Post by Bo knows granville on Jun 14, 2012 18:53:35 GMT 10
BTW Mate calling mine is not the offence in itself. When you call mine or leave it with the intention of tricking an opposition player into not playing at the ball, then it is an offence and that is how most refs will apply the ruling. It is the same as being offside but not interfering with play a ref's job is to judge whether it has affected play before acting on it.
We try to get more experienced referees out to watch and mentor referees as often as we can. For example, I did 2 mentoring games last Sat before heading off to my PL games). In addition, the senior referees are directed to provide assistance and feedback to the juniors who are running lines for them. We are also actively trying to mix younger referees with a senior referees where each act as an assistant referee for the other with the senior giving feedback to the younger both when he is a referee and assistant - although this is limited to the never-ending shortage of referees to handle any senior games.
Our biggest problem is getting young referees to attend our monthly meetings where education, training and discussion of issues is paramount. Unfortunately we are lucky to get 15-20 juniors (out of 150) to attend each meeting. Supposedly the rest can't come because they work, or study, or have training, or mum/dad can't or wont bring them. [Reality is probably because they can't be bothered.] Even when turning up meant they could get $20 of free referees equipment of their own chosing, we got a little more than 50% of juniors to attend.
It is somewhat of a losing battle, and is a major reason why there is so much inconsistency in junior referees. And we just don't have sufficent senior referees to get out and mentor them other than on an adhoc basis.
The intention is not to get out and 'lecture' teams on the rules, rather to explain and discuss the rules so players have a better understanding of why the referee made a certain decision. But agreed, this does not address the overall issue of referee inconsistency - at all levels.
So this seems to be about what as a player I can say on the field that wont cop me a yellow card or a send off. I think most referee's are mindful of have the game played within the wording and the spirit of the Laws of the Game - not some artificial construct some have of over 30 odd years of playing about what is "acceptable" and what isn't.
As far as referee's attending premiers v ressie trial games for coaching, I'm in for that as long as 4 players from every team from U14's up did the referee's course so they could explain to their team mates what the Laws of the Game are and how they are actually applied.
The problem as I see it is there is no consistency AT ALL. A recent State Cup match and I had a player flattened in the box and we received a penalty. The opp player who committed the foul got a yellow for the foul and then went over to our player and give her a gobful calling her a 'effing diving cheat', our player then 'flipped her the bird'. The result - the player who committed the foul and swore at our player received only a yellow for the foul with the ref saying the swearing although audible to him was not audible to the crowd, and my player who in the refs report is clearly stated, she said nothing to me (the ref) or player before, during or after the incident was SENT OFF as the 'finger' could have be seen by the crowd. EVEN WORSE - offensive gesture is a Mandatory FOUR WEEKS.
If she had just told her to Get Eff back she would have received TWO WEEKS under Football NSW Penalties. Appeal you might say - nope not possible, there is no appeal process for red cards received in a State Cup game, even for a player never sent or yellowed in 12 seasons of football.
And yes they were GDSRA. I dont care whatever is decided but at the moment there is so much confusion around offensive vs not offensive and audible vs not audible something needs to be done at both GDSRA and NSW level.
There may be some benefit to all in it. As he now does lines for State League on a Sunday he is seeing how much better higher level players are at behaving, certainly the F&A language is a lot less noticeable but then as the players get paid and if they are sent off get harshly dealt with by their clubs and miss out on getting paid that may have something to do with it. Plus clubs have higher discipline expectations at that level, so again perhaps Granville clubs need to be stricter, especially with their senior players
Last Edit: Jun 15, 2012 11:50:15 GMT 10 by Deleted
your comments have already been noted at the MC level, I'm sure it will be discussed.
Last night at the ref's meeting a session was held where all members broke up into 9 groups and discussed what words and phrases should get what cards. Common theme was the context words are used in and also that most refs will send you if you call them a cheat. Racial vilification was also discussed. The findings are being tabulated and will be sent to GDSFA for inclusion in their deliberations
I go watch my brother play weekly - plays for blacktown city and I can tell you watching his games I can hear them swearing at the refs there own players and others players with no send off.. Not even a card. Not so much at the referee but I did hear a player in a recent waratah cup game I was 70 meters away turn to the ref and say are you f...king taking the throw or what? No card no nothing. The ref just waved him away. Now i used to play that level 2 years ago and they swear all game. Maybe different from state league to premier league I dunno but in premier league they do swear! And alot.
refsdad, do you think this information could make it through to the clubs sooner rather then later. I am sure there is a process in place and that is why it is being sent to the GDSFA. But the sooner we have this information in club land the sooner we can pass onto players, coaches and managers.
perhaps they do, then again I don't wear my hearing aid on the weekend so that may be why I don't hear it
a little bit of common sense doesn't go astray you know, such as calling the ref a cheat, denigrating someone's colour or racial background and just think about what you would find offensive and chances are your opponent may feel the same,, an old saying but still relevant today, possibly even more so, treat your neighbour as you would expect to get treated.
but not sure what the thought processes are at GDSFA so don't know when we will see it.
Last Edit: Jun 15, 2012 12:53:10 GMT 10 by Deleted
One of my players was given a straight red card a couple of weeks back for calling someone a 'piece of sh!t' after hearing a racial slur. The ref never heard it, so the offender got off scott free. But it seems a very tough penalty for calling someone something he really is....now he sits on the sideline for 3 weeks.
Love it!(at refsdad post not reds) I think maybe it is a little harsh smetimes and not. Everyone makes mistakes and refs have different opinions. As I player I find it pretty easy to work out what will get you sent off by the first 3-4 free kicks a ref awards. If he lays down the rules so the first player to swear gets a yellow then the tone for the game Is set. Don't swear don't get carded.. If others are swearing and he let's It go then you can swear not excessively and not abusively to people and you will probably find yourself on the field after 90 mins.
Get use to it, you say bayliner. Would be much easier to achieve that if we had a consistent rule in place. At the moment depending on the ref the exact same scenario can vary from no sanction whatsoever to send off. That is the problem.
Surely the expectations of players, coaches, managers, spectators and match officials should be that everyone participates within the laws of the game. Sadly the majority of players , parents/spectators and some coaches and managers think they know the LOTG however they are sadly mistaken, especially when it comes to offside and handball